Brave New World

Kainguru

Well Brave New World has dropped - thoughts?

I'm only 2 episodes in and a bit conflicted by some of the, admittedly small, deviations from the original.

(I've a minor personal investment in it being done justice - I went school with one of Huxleys grandsons and read the book sat in The Rookery in Amsterdam many years ago)

malifer

They made it into a tv show...gross. Haven't seen it, didn't know about, really short book can't see how it holds true to the source material and manages to last very long.

Seems like it would turn into a soap opera once you lose focus on the main character hating the drugged up world and not wanting to participate in the orgies.

Also like 1984 seems like a dated idea that wont shock people because we are living it, people are all medicated and want immediate pleasure and there is a vast class disparity? Next you'll tell me we are being video taped all the time and the government is reading our emails and listening to our phone calls.

A few years back, I showed my wife the excellent movie Quiz Show with John Turturro from 1994. In the end, she was just how hum about it. I mean how dramatic is the first scandalous example that television is a lie compared in today's era. Great movie, but she was right we've known about how fake television is with decades of reality tv.

Kainguru

malifer and yeah, we are already living in the dystopia - that and demolition man (just need the 3 seashells to make it complete)

Kainguru

For me it's all about the subtext of the novel - basically are we willing to give up privacy and freedom on order to be 'happy'. Plus what is 'happiness'? Which is very relevant today when we have the likes of the UK Govt touting measures of happiness on an indexed scale.

The change I've noticed first is the portrayal of 'the savages' as redneck North Americans. That's a cheap shot and skews from the source material in a way that devalues the conflict of the protagonist in the novel. Which for me is one of the central themes - the protagonist is a moral person confronted by, in his opinion, an amoral world. The protagonist in the novel is also a person who belongs to neither world because of the fact he belongs to both (the product of one bought up in the other and returned, because he is rejected by the later, to the former).

'The Savages' in the novel are more sympathetic than 'The Savages' in this version - so far.

I think they could have done far more with the source themes than they have - but I am only on episode 2. I do hope they include Huxley's later non-fiction musings on his earlier work (Brave New World Revisited)

Ayslyn

Kainguru basically are we willing to give up privacy and freedom on order to be 'happy'

Given that I think that they are inexorably tied.... I don't understand the question.... ^.^

malifer

Kainguru we willing to give up privacy and freedom on order to be 'happy'

I don't remember that, but it has been a long time. I remember the soma pills and people were put into classes, I think some plot line about "B" male had they hots for an "A" female, the protagonist hated all of it and of course the savages.

And the happy ending where the protagonist "rises above it all". I'm king of the world!

Anyway wake me when someone makes a film/tv show based on my favorite dystopian novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?...and don't mention those garbage Scott films.

Kainguru

Ayslyn That's one of the existential questions raised by the book - what is happiness? By the norms of the dystopian utopia of the book one of the leaders of their society contends that the protagonist wants to maintain a right to be unhappy. The protagonist cannot see how his world view equates this conclusion and the leader cannot comprehend the protagonists belief system outside of those he has been conditioned to accept.

That's the other minor quibble with it so far - very early on, in the book, you are made aware of the subliminal conditioning that is part of this future society. The conditioning is the glue that holds the fabric of the whole together - we tell what to do to be happy, we give you what we have told you will make you happy, you believe you are happy. This belief makes it so.

Huxley believed that a world of superficial wish fulfillment and increasing fixation on the trivial would be the hallmarks of a totalitarian regime. A stark contrast to Orwells brutal boot stamping on a human face forever motif. Orwell - history is rewritten to establish control and reinforce the myth of the present vs Huxley - history is irrelevant because the people are too distracted to care.

I fear Huxley may turn out to be more correct than Orwell ...

malifer

Kainguru I fear Huxley may turn out to be more correct than Orwell

I think we may just be getting a bit of both. History in the states seems to be very malleable and most don't seem to care as long as they get what makes them happy. Hooray We've got Dystopian Bingo!

Kainguru

malifer not a happy ending in the book - protagonist tries, but fails, to rise above it and ends his tale on his terms (so to speak)

Kainguru

malifer think we may just be getting a bit of both. History in the states seems to be very malleable and most don't seem to care as long as they get what makes them happy. Hooray We've got Dystopian Bingo!

My personal reality check is as follows:
Dad complains about NZ leadership, looks at covid 19 figures
Mum then complains about Oz leadership, again I look at covid 19 figures
Look around me at UK covid 19 figures, get depressed
THEN I look at the US news feed .... seriously WTF is going on over there?

malifer

Kainguru protagonist tries, but fails, to rise above it and ends his tale on his terms

I mean he is higher than most by the end of the story.

ProbieTim

Kainguru THEN I look at the US news feed .... seriously WTF is going on over there?

I wish I knew.

Seriously, if ever again I travel abroad, I'm telling everyone I'm from Canada. The US is embarrassing.

Ayslyn

Kainguru THEN I look at the US news feed

That’s your first mistake.

MasterVidar

Kainguru Keep in mind, there is reality, and then there is what the news shows broadcast. Not very often the same.

EricfromNJ

The US is - the US. I am not going to get into things because this will turn into a political post, which I come to Happy Jacks to avoid.
I have the sudden Urge to listen to Iron Maiden circa 2001.

malifer

EricfromNJ MAIDEN!

Kainguru

On episode 5 now and it has improved - they've introduced several wrinkles:

A very blatant nod to Kierkegaard from Controller Mond
An expansion of the character and motivations of Controller Mond
A deeper exploration of the Epsilon class and their ability to spontaneously become more aware and, thru the experience of saddness, expand that awareness to experience a different level of 'feeling'

Kainguru

MasterVidar I'm interested purely in the covid 19 stats and strategy (or lack of as is the case in the UK). What worries me more are the bonkers rationales for not doing certain things to stop it spreading eg: non compliance with mask wearing as a freedom/rights issue ref: a mask protects other from you, not vice versa, therefore (as I see it) your 'right' not wear a mask extends precisely as far as my 'right not to be infected (which is about 2 metres, preferably 3).

The covid 19 crisis has high lighted how superficial we have all become - we've put our faith in leaders (social and political) that make us feel better rather than advise us truthfully.

In the UK on, at least, 2 separate occasions our MP's have quite literally said - "We don't need experts telling us what to do, we believe the British public is tired of being advised by experts". Then covid 19 hit and suddenly there was mad scramble for the advice of those experts they'd so readily scorned. Bonkers seriously bonkers.

But I do fear Huxley was more right that Orwell with societies current fixations on the trivial, as a discreet panacea to prevent dissent.

I just don't understand why this version of Brave New World portrayed the The Savage Lands as they did - except as a very cheap, and crudely disingenuous, shot at certain stereotypes of America

MasterVidar

I'm in Northern NY, where I live, 95% wear a mask. My sister, an emergency room nurse in Ohio, says they are being pressured to report every intake as COVID related. Two of my Aunts were scheduled to take the COVID test, and when they arrived the line was out the door of the building, so they decided not to wait. The next day they received an email informing them they had tested positive for COVID. even though they didn't take the test.
I don't believe the numbers here in the US reflect the reality of the situation. I may be wrong.

Kainguru

MasterVidar the statistic that matters is death rate per million BUT you have to compare that to the expected rate (ie based on previous non covid 19 years) to get a clear picture. The UK is performing particularly poorly on this measure with a figure over 500 compared to Oz and NZ who have figures around 35. Belgium is very bad with around 700.

We've also now have a knock on effect - cancelled ops and investigations mean that early detection figures for cancer etc are now problematic.

We've also had local spikes in the infection rate post reopening pubs etc - to the surprise of no one at all.

Ayslyn

Kainguru the statistic that matters is death rate per million BUT you have to compare that to the expected rate (ie based on previous non covid 19 years) to get a clear picture

The problem is, that in the US, that clear picture is impossible to get. We have procedures in place that can't provide real numbers. @MasterVidar example above is actually a mild example of the deceit that we're dealing with. CDC guidelines, until recently, stated that if there was a patient who died that had a chance of being positive, then they should be reported as a Death from COVID. For months now, as per protocol, we have not been making the distinction between deaths, deaths with COVID, and deaths from COVID.

It turns out that FL labs were only reporting positive test results. There were labs that for days reported 100% positive rates, and distressingly, no one thought that odd....