Brave New World

malifer

Kainguru we willing to give up privacy and freedom on order to be 'happy'

I don't remember that, but it has been a long time. I remember the soma pills and people were put into classes, I think some plot line about "B" male had they hots for an "A" female, the protagonist hated all of it and of course the savages.

And the happy ending where the protagonist "rises above it all". I'm king of the world!

Anyway wake me when someone makes a film/tv show based on my favorite dystopian novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?...and don't mention those garbage Scott films.

Kainguru

malifer not a happy ending in the book - protagonist tries, but fails, to rise above it and ends his tale on his terms (so to speak)

malifer

Kainguru I fear Huxley may turn out to be more correct than Orwell

I think we may just be getting a bit of both. History in the states seems to be very malleable and most don't seem to care as long as they get what makes them happy. Hooray We've got Dystopian Bingo!

Kainguru

malifer think we may just be getting a bit of both. History in the states seems to be very malleable and most don't seem to care as long as they get what makes them happy. Hooray We've got Dystopian Bingo!

My personal reality check is as follows:
Dad complains about NZ leadership, looks at covid 19 figures
Mum then complains about Oz leadership, again I look at covid 19 figures
Look around me at UK covid 19 figures, get depressed
THEN I look at the US news feed .... seriously WTF is going on over there?

malifer

Kainguru protagonist tries, but fails, to rise above it and ends his tale on his terms

I mean he is higher than most by the end of the story.

ProbieTim

Kainguru THEN I look at the US news feed .... seriously WTF is going on over there?

I wish I knew.

Seriously, if ever again I travel abroad, I'm telling everyone I'm from Canada. The US is embarrassing.

Ayslyn

Kainguru THEN I look at the US news feed

That’s your first mistake.

MasterVidar

Kainguru Keep in mind, there is reality, and then there is what the news shows broadcast. Not very often the same.

EricfromNJ

The US is - the US. I am not going to get into things because this will turn into a political post, which I come to Happy Jacks to avoid.
I have the sudden Urge to listen to Iron Maiden circa 2001.

malifer

EricfromNJ MAIDEN!

Kainguru

On episode 5 now and it has improved - they've introduced several wrinkles:

A very blatant nod to Kierkegaard from Controller Mond
An expansion of the character and motivations of Controller Mond
A deeper exploration of the Epsilon class and their ability to spontaneously become more aware and, thru the experience of saddness, expand that awareness to experience a different level of 'feeling'

Kainguru

MasterVidar I'm interested purely in the covid 19 stats and strategy (or lack of as is the case in the UK). What worries me more are the bonkers rationales for not doing certain things to stop it spreading eg: non compliance with mask wearing as a freedom/rights issue ref: a mask protects other from you, not vice versa, therefore (as I see it) your 'right' not wear a mask extends precisely as far as my 'right not to be infected (which is about 2 metres, preferably 3).

The covid 19 crisis has high lighted how superficial we have all become - we've put our faith in leaders (social and political) that make us feel better rather than advise us truthfully.

In the UK on, at least, 2 separate occasions our MP's have quite literally said - "We don't need experts telling us what to do, we believe the British public is tired of being advised by experts". Then covid 19 hit and suddenly there was mad scramble for the advice of those experts they'd so readily scorned. Bonkers seriously bonkers.

But I do fear Huxley was more right that Orwell with societies current fixations on the trivial, as a discreet panacea to prevent dissent.

I just don't understand why this version of Brave New World portrayed the The Savage Lands as they did - except as a very cheap, and crudely disingenuous, shot at certain stereotypes of America

MasterVidar

I'm in Northern NY, where I live, 95% wear a mask. My sister, an emergency room nurse in Ohio, says they are being pressured to report every intake as COVID related. Two of my Aunts were scheduled to take the COVID test, and when they arrived the line was out the door of the building, so they decided not to wait. The next day they received an email informing them they had tested positive for COVID. even though they didn't take the test.
I don't believe the numbers here in the US reflect the reality of the situation. I may be wrong.

Kainguru

MasterVidar the statistic that matters is death rate per million BUT you have to compare that to the expected rate (ie based on previous non covid 19 years) to get a clear picture. The UK is performing particularly poorly on this measure with a figure over 500 compared to Oz and NZ who have figures around 35. Belgium is very bad with around 700.

We've also now have a knock on effect - cancelled ops and investigations mean that early detection figures for cancer etc are now problematic.

We've also had local spikes in the infection rate post reopening pubs etc - to the surprise of no one at all.

Ayslyn

Kainguru the statistic that matters is death rate per million BUT you have to compare that to the expected rate (ie based on previous non covid 19 years) to get a clear picture

The problem is, that in the US, that clear picture is impossible to get. We have procedures in place that can't provide real numbers. @MasterVidar example above is actually a mild example of the deceit that we're dealing with. CDC guidelines, until recently, stated that if there was a patient who died that had a chance of being positive, then they should be reported as a Death from COVID. For months now, as per protocol, we have not been making the distinction between deaths, deaths with COVID, and deaths from COVID.

It turns out that FL labs were only reporting positive test results. There were labs that for days reported 100% positive rates, and distressingly, no one thought that odd....

Kainguru

Ayslyn even with adjusted figures its still bad and will remain so until we get a vaccine and an effective treatment protocol. Had the husband of someone I work with go from healthy to coma to dead in 7 days - same age as me, sobering to say the least.

We've had an anti mask rally in London on weekend - so that's another spike coming in the next 2 weeks. Blackburn, near me, has highest infection rate in UK as of today following a big funeral of 250 people attending - the funeral was ground zero for the spikes now in Pendle and Rochdale as well (funeral attendees live in both those areas)

What made NZ response so effective? Early action and constant communication from the Govt. NZ PM leveraged social media to get the message across. Though, now, if I want to go to either home country (NZ and Oz) I'd have to self isolate for 2 weeks at a hotel nominated by the Govt.

The insanity of people arguing the merits and flaws of barrier nursing protocols, like masks, is just dumb. No one single protocol is effective, it's using the suite of precautions that makes one safe: if they worked for caring for people with other infectious diseases its a no brained that they'll mitigate against covid. So far I've nursed TB, MRSA, HIV, C. Diff and a host of tropical diseases without getting infected. Basic precautions work - the arguments against them are groundless and 'mey freedum' protests are ... I don't have the words to describe them really. Nor do I have much tolerance for 'invisible man in the sky grants immunity' justifications either.

TBH it's got the point, with certain sections of the general public, where I figure evolution will have to sort it out because common sense doesn't seem to be working.

Ayslyn

Kainguru even with adjusted figures its still bad and will remain so until we get a vaccine and an effective treatment protocol.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that it wasn't. Believe me. I was hospitalized for a week. I know all too well how bad it can be. I am just saying that we can't have a honest conversation about it when we aren't privy to the truth of what's going on.

Kainguru

Ayslyn

lol. I wasn;t criticising or meant it 'that way' - I was metaphorically breaking the 4th wall in a conversation to vent/illuminate.

I suspect that the medical profession, as nebulous body, may be unintentionally exaggerating the figures because they know they can't trust the general public with the real figures. ie: with real figures, for example, 5% is a hell of a risk/impact but the public won't see that .... whereas 25% gets even the most jaded/ignorant/uninformed/etc worried. Overshooting is always the goal because the stupid factor will usually drag the inclination to change back to the actual figure desired eg: STD awareness PSA's of the last 50yrs

Ayslyn

The massive downside is that people lose confidence in said experts.

To quote C.S. Lewis:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

Kainguru

Ayslyn I think the loss in confidence with experts has more to do with the narrative of our times - the appeal to popularism and the deconstruction of the sciences. In my view science didn't require the deconstruction that has been applied to humanities simply because the methodology has always been fundamentally different - that's not say there hasn't been bad science but science always catches itself in the end as part of its ongoing process. Humanities is an ongoing conversation vs science is an ongoing investigation. The humanities tend to fear for the sciences but that is where philosophy comes in - the grand daddy of both science and humanities (ref: the highest degree in both is a PhD). The philosophers get to oversee science thru ethics committees and those committees do matter.

The biggest error is that all these processes are part of the system and just not obvious until one is working within that system. Unfortunately people who aren't part of this process feel left out - but then I'm not an engineer but I put my faith in there skill all the time: because the awful truth is not anyone can just build a bridge.

The conflict is that people want to have their opinions validated and, when the likes of science doesn't agree, they seek out easy answers that confirm their view. Confirmation bias and all that. The other big factor is that we have the internet that amplifies voices that can reinforce those views (echo chambers) as well as that other phenomena where people tend to over estimate their own intelligence. The Dunning Kruger Effect has basically received a steroid injection from the internet and become the zeitgeist of our time encouraged, no less, by persons with ulterior motivations - bad actors who push certain narratives for personal gain (not just politicians either)